|
|
Post by Mara Wildman on Jan 8, 2011 11:49:55 GMT -5
I have a question for all my fine J/C friends out there. If you love J/C, how in the heck do you justify Chakotay's "We don't have to do this," statement to Tessa when he's standing ten feet away from Janeway's dead body?  ?? I've yet to hear a valid argument on how he's anything other than a complete jerk off. Well, I'm definitely far from a J/C fan, but I can come up with a valid reason. For the sake of my case, I'm going to talk like a J/C-er, but please don't mistake me for one! lol It's been 15 years, for one. It doesn't matter how much you loved someone in your past; if you've found someone else to love you may not 100% want to go back to your old flame if you get the chance. Plus, since he loves Tessa, he is going to think about her wants since they may never meet in the first place if they're successful. Now, say you're a J/C fan who thinks that Janeway and Chakotay love each other, but have never actually persued anything. Unrequited love is a whole other story. Past unrequited love is easier to get over than an actual lover. Especially after 15 years. I, myself, had some major unrequited love going on with a friend of mine while Josh was doing his internship in Texas. (Josh and I never got together until about a month after he got back.) I was very much in love with him, but too afraid to say anything. Once Josh came back and we started hanging out, I slowly, then quickly, got over the other guy. It was easy because we had never actually been involved with each other, though we were good friends. I definitely don't see Chakotay as a jerk for saying that to Tessa with Janeway's body right there. He may have loved her, but she's dead and it's the past. He's got a new love in his arms. He hasn't forgotten his old love, but also has to think about his new love. *relieved sigh* I didn't sound as much like a J/C fan as I thought I would. EDIT: Also, in general, you're not a jerk for keeping a dead person dead. You're a jerk for not considering the feelings of the one you love. |
|
|
|
Post by KateJaneway on Jan 8, 2011 12:15:11 GMT -5
That's a very good point Mara! I am going for reinforcements on thins one.... I shall return with many more answers.  |
|
|
|
Post by Janeway Forever on Jan 8, 2011 12:16:50 GMT -5
I hate to turn this thread into a debate over Chuckles, however, Mara there are few things I believe your opinion fails to take into consideration.
1) It may have been 15 years, but Chakotay has done ANYTHING but move on. It's been 15 years, yet Chakotay and Harry have stolen the Delta Flyer. They've stolen the borg temperal transmitter, they've spent 15 years trying to locate Voyager. Their entire lives, since Voyager's loss, has been devoted to finding it.
2) We're not talking about "reclaiming" his lost love. We're talking about SAVING them all. 150 crew members. Many of them deep personal friends. Many of them who have saved Chuckles' life in the past. Even IF he's in love with Tessa, it's an easy solution. Since his entire life mission has been about this moment, it's ridiculous to leave the decision up to her.
3) Your analogy to your own life isn't really a fair one because you're assuming he's meant for Tessa the way you were meant for Josh. If this is true, they'll find each other again. I would certainly sacrifice my happiness if it were to save 150 of my friends.
4) Unrequited love is often the hardest love to get over. Because you are never in a relationship with them, you tend to focus on all of the good things. Not the bad things that creep up in your relationships. I believe Charlie Brown sums it up best: "Nothing takes the taste out of peanut butter quite like unrequited love."
|
|
|
|
Post by KateJaneway on Jan 8, 2011 12:27:50 GMT -5
Awe, d**n. Touche' JF. To-freakin- che'.
|
|
|
|
Post by snowbelle23 on Jan 8, 2011 12:35:35 GMT -5
Loading part one for year of hell ,talked to my mom yesterday and she is sending me some money for my birthday but what should i do save it for vegas or buy one of the seasons on dvd?!!
|
|
|
|
Post by Mara Wildman on Jan 8, 2011 12:40:47 GMT -5
With your mention of J/C fans, and him saying that to Tessa right next to Janeway's body, I was assuming the argument was only about his being a jerk to Janeway.
Chakotay probably said what he did knowing Tessa wouldn't back down. He wanted to be sure she knew that she wasn't being forced to do this, but was choosing to do it.
Since you didn't like my unrequited love analogy because I married the one that sort of "replaced" the other guy, then how about a story that ended with a guy that I didn't marry? There was a friend I had in Colorado (one of the best friends I ever had) that would joke about us being together. I always shut down those jokes and nothing ever happened. However, after I moved I missed him so much. I couldn't stop thinking about how much I loved him for over 4 years. I was so miserable whenever I thought about him because of how much I loved and missed him. I also found little hope for us ever seeing each other again. Even though I'd call him every time I got a phone card (remember those things??), I never told him how I felt. Every time I wrote in my diary I'd mention something about how much I missed Chris. Then, I found Kyle. Once I got with Kyle, I slowly started to heal. I never completely forgot Chris, but I would no longer lay on my bed and feel depressed whenever I thought about him. It's not necessarily about the one you're destined to be with, but someone to help you out of past hurts and to fulfill your needs of the present. (I know there's a better way I want to word it, but that's the best way I can get it out.)
|
|
|
|
Post by Janeway Forever on Jan 8, 2011 12:54:44 GMT -5
Mara, unless Chris died, and you had the chance to revive him by sacrificing your relationship with Kyle, it's still not a fair analogy.
I believe we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.
It's irrelevant anyway. Should Tessa have said for them to stop, Harry would have hog tied them both and he and the Doctor would have done it all. HIS devotion to Janeway was unwavering.
|
|
|
|
Post by KateJaneway on Jan 8, 2011 20:32:33 GMT -5
hmmm.... some other opinions...
"Well, it was 15 years after Voyager's crash, maybe he was getting a little cold feet (C's only human, w/ normal foibles), and being a bit sad to leave his existence w/ Tessa, even if he wanted to see KJ again. I wouldn't expect him to spend the rest of his life "wearing black, etc" and he did then go through w/ it! (Guess am feeling a little sorry for him since he had lost his ship/crew/captain and probably felt survivor guilt for so many years, and he was trying to make it right at perhaps a cost to his life, and Tessa's, without even being successful, it was a dangerous mission, aw.)
But this is just MHO, of course!"
Reply with quoteRe: J/C Question
by myu on Sat Jan 08, 2011 7:37 pm
I agree with the rest and say it's about Tessa. I mean, she's getting zero benefit from helping them with what they want to do.
There's also no concrete guarantee that whatever they do will actually work, so I wouldn't say you could fault him for getting cold feet. In addition to that...well, it's a bit macabre, but in a sense they're talking about raising the dead and I'd say that's an issue serious enough to make anyone hesitate. Maybe I just say that because things like respect for the dead and funeral customs and stuff (disturbing graves, etc.) is something I take quite seriously...hm."
And finally...
"In Trek writing, there's always the 80/20 rule with whether or not the mission's going to work. At the point Chak says this in Timeless, you can assume the characters are minding that 20 percent that the mission may fail and they are expressing that possibility. I don't think the statement was a slap at Janeway or a sentimental cop out for Tessa. It's just a way to express the uncertainty of the outcome and heighten tension. My two cents, of course."
I don't think I agree with any of it. If he loved her he'd wait for her and ONLY her.... Tessa would br irrelevent. just... whatever.
|
|
|
|
Post by Janeway Forever on Jan 8, 2011 20:44:16 GMT -5
All I read in those responses was:
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
As I said before, they are trying to justify the unjustifiable.
|
|
|
|
Post by KateJaneway on Jan 8, 2011 22:01:22 GMT -5
Ha ha, I agree.
|
|
|
|
Post by Mara Wildman on Jan 14, 2011 22:52:19 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by Janeway Forever on Jan 14, 2011 23:01:40 GMT -5
Awe yay!! I LOVE LOVE LOVE Deadlock!! "It's my ship, and my decision."
|
|
|
|
Post by snowbelle23 on Jan 15, 2011 14:23:46 GMT -5
can anyone remember the name of the episode where the crew are talking about their Ansestors and we see flashbacks of Janeways relative,i remember that one being a favorite of mine and want to watch it online!!.
|
|
|
|
Post by Mara Wildman on Jan 15, 2011 14:27:01 GMT -5
Might you be talking abou 11:59? There was some "new millennium" tower going to be built and we see the story of a woman who looks just like the captain who ends up marrying a bookstore owner with the last name Janeway.
|
|
|
|
Post by Janeway Forever on Jan 15, 2011 14:40:13 GMT -5
Marais right. It's 11:59.
|
|
